we ran out of plates
this can possibly be the greatest photo on tumblr.
This can possibly be the most disrespectful photo on Tumblr. I am not saying that you have to agree with what the bible says, but to utilize that book ‘as a plate’ knowing what it means to people, is just plain disrespectful.
It’s sad that people are so full of anger when it comes to religion, that they would rather post photos like this than deal with their hostilities in a more appropriate way.
i’m sorry, i cant hear you over the sound of nOT BEING ABLE TO GET MARRIED BECAUSE OF THAT BOOK.
best comment ^
just for that comment
i honestly started clapping for that comment
Bible should help people, shouldn’t it?
It’s not because of the Bible, it’s because of people’s interpretation of the Bible’s message. Really, you can’t get married because of people who believe that their view point is the only view point.
I’d like to draw your attention to the final bit of this thread, because we can start off by refuting this obviously wrong statement:
YES, THE BIBLE DOES FORBID HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONS, NEVER MIND GAY MARRIAGE! STATING OTHERWISE IS AT BEST IGNORANT AND AT WORST A DELIBERATE LIE TO YOURSELF AND THE PERSON YOU’RE TALKING TO!
I can tell you’re saying: ‘Gee, Philip, we already knew this. Why are you bothering to post this just to inform us of that?’
And I answer ‘Because it’s part of a larger, currently ongoing movement that I want to draw your attention to.’ The person I’m reblogging this from is not the only one to make the claim “The Bible isn’t anti-gay. Just certain Christians are.” Here’s a couple more (warning on the latter link: the background is an annoying gif, click at your own risk). And I’m sure I could find a lot more if I went looking.
It’s a common response from younger, more progressive Christians: “Oh, no! Not all Christians are homophobic, there are plenty of us with gay friends and who support gay marriage!” Taking it a step further and trying to claim the Bible doesn’t forbid gay marriage is just insulting, but I want to focus on that first part, the ‘There are gay-friendly Christians out there.’
I’m not an expert on the history of religion, or the history of Christianity, or - as is relevant to this post - the history of Christianity and its social influence in America. But I do know how this story has played out before:
-The abolitionist movement met significant opposition from Christians who used genuine, fully in context quotes of the Bible to justify slavery (in addition to all the parts of the Bible where God commands Israel to take slaves or Paul commands slaves to obey their masters, you can Google ‘Curse of Ham’ for insight into this line of thinking). Slavery was eventually abolished (yay), and the generations after that have tried to claim that the abolitionist movement was solely the work of Christians. Now, yes, there were Christian abolitionists (this was a time when religious affiliation was taken for granted and a place where Christianity was the dominant religion), but the pro-slavery movement was founded on/supported by religion as much as anything.
-The women’s rights movement met significant opposition from Christians who pointed out that the Bible teaches women are inferior to men. There undoubtedly were pro-suffrage Christians, but the millennia of ‘women are less than men’ thinking that necessitated the women’s rights movement in the first place came from religion. Eventually the 19th Amendment was passed and there have been strides made to put women on equal footing with men. Today it’s not impossible to find people who argue that the Bible teaches women should be subservient to their husbands (and of course they believe women should be married), but most Christians take it as a given that women deserve the right to vote, choose their own spouse, work, drive, do whatever men do. They ignore the parts of the Bible that imply/advocate gender inequality.
-The Civil Rights movement met significant opposition from Christians and churches who argued that God had placed the different ethnicities in different parts of the world because miscegenation and a general mingling of races went against His wishes. Yes, there were Christian civil rights leaders (we all know Martin Luther King Jr. made his religious belief perhaps the most significant facet of his public persona), but those opposed to racial equality fell back on Biblical verses as much as they did rank bigotry. Eventually gains for ethnic minorities were made, but today conservative Christians who would have denounced Dr. King as a socialist in the ‘60’s try to claim the Civil Rights movement got its entire strength and momentum from Christians and Biblical teachings, and conveniently ignore the Bible-backed racism that gave the movement such a headache.
See the pattern here?
Now what’s happened/happening with the gay rights movement? They’ve met significant opposition from Christians who quote the Bible forbidding homosexuality (check), support for gay marriage is in the majority and we’re on the verge of it becoming either backed by the Supreme Court or perhaps Congress will (sooner or later) pass a bill recognizing gay marriage (check).
And what comes next? That’s right; Christians will try to claim the gay rights movement got its power from the church and attempt to whitewash all the bigotry and hatred against gays and lesbians that came out of religious belief. In 20 or 25 years, when we have people entering adulthood who have lived their entire lives in a world where gay marriage was accepted and legally recognized, there will be Christians trying to claim “Of course Christians support gay marriage. We’ve always supported gay marriage, and the first steps to recognizing gay rights came from the churches and other religious organizations.”
First they deny the rights, then they fight against granting the rights, then they claim they supported granting the rights all along. We’re already seeing that with the above post, trying to outright lie about the Bible’s explicit views on gay rights.
I already mentioned the standard response to this: “Not all Christians are homophobic, you can’t judge all of us based on the views or actions of a few.”
But the things is, I’m not judging any gay-friendly Christians on the views/actions of homophobic Christians. I’m judging them on their actions; namely their silence.
In my post about my views on guns I mentioned that when the majority of rational gun owners are silent they allow the fringe to dominate the conversation. What good does it do to say “The majority of gun owners practice safety and don’t fetishize their weapons and don’t believe conspiracy theories about the United Nations coming to take their guns away” when they’re standing away from the conversation? Rational gun owners can speak for themselves, and if they don’t then you or someone else shouldn’t be speaking for them.
So it is with Christians and gay rights. What good does it do to say “There are plenty of gay-friendly Christians” when so many of them are/have been silent for so long, taking no part in the gay rights movement? When gay-friendly Christians stand aside they allow the homophobic Christians to frame the debate. If Pat Robertson and Tony Perkins are the only Christians taking part in the gay rights debate, then guess what: Christians as a whole will be defined by their homophobia.
To gay-friendly Christians offended by the above picture and conversation: Don’t get in my or anyone else’s face when people say “Christianity is homophobic” because your silence is a reason itself for this view. You don’t confront the church leaders and public figures, but then you’re upset when something like this happens?
Bluntly: fuck you. You don’t get to be offended by people having a view of Christianity (or religion in general) that you haven’t worked to challenge or undo.
I think it’s important to mention that the opposite of love isn’t hatred. It’s apathy. Silent, gay-friendly Christians are apathetic, and through that they’ve allowed the outright hatred to take its place at the debate.
Now I understand when it comes to gay marriage/gay rights you’re facing an uphill battle trying to change Christianity’s public image, because, as I said, the Bible is explicitly homophobic. No amount of lying or creative interpretation will change this. If you are honest you need to face the choice between taking the Bible as totally, completely literal truth, or taking the Bible as some truth and some archaic views that need to be rejected as society progresses. But you don’t get to claim what is or is not in the Bible to begin with. Leviticus 18:22 is there. It’s in every version. You can’t white it out, and you don’t get to be angry at the people who point out it’s there and they or their friends and loved ones are denied rights because of it.
But I don’t believe anyone who identifies as Christian must follow an explicitly literal interpretation of the Bible, cover to cover. There are plenty of Christians who reject a literal reading of Genesis and accept the evidence supporting the theory of evolution, and neither I nor anyone else has the right or power to say they aren’t Real, True Christians. It’s something I’ve noticed among certain circles of atheism, the idea that “real” believers need to be of the most fundamentalist, literal-minded stock, and progressives are just wishy-washy frauds. Maybe it’s because, as I mentioned, the most fundamentalist are often the most vocal and thus get the most attention, or maybe it’s just because some atheists find it easier to dismiss religion when it’s at its most obstinate and base.
But atheists don’t get to declare who is or is not a Real, True Christian, any more than any Christian gets to. Religions, like all complex memes, change over time the way complex organisms do. This doesn’t mean the pro-slavery, racist, sexist, or homophobic aspects of a religion retroactively disappear when a religion moves on from its Iron Age views - again, progressive Christians don’t get to lie and claim the Bible is not homophobic - but Christians don’t have to be bound by such vestigial views.
BUT THEY DO NEED TO CHALLENGE AND EXPLICITLY REJECT THE VIEWS IF THEY WANT TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THEM!
I’m not writing all this because I expect to change anyone’s mind about anything. Many progressive Christians will continue to claim offense whenever they see something like this picture, whining “Not all Christians are homophobic!” while ignoring that they’ve stood by and allowed the bigotry and homophobia to be spewed forth for so long.
But I wanted to say this because, as I said above, it’s not so much a prediction as a sure outcome that in another generation the dominant Christian argument will be “Christianity has always supported gay marriage,” and I want to be able to say ‘I told you so.’