agoodcartoon:

Conservatives like to deflect actual serious questions with vacuous bullshit talking points. A good cartoon.

The only way a conservative will be pictured with minorities is if the latter shut their mouth and stand in the background while the white man talks.
(Or if they’re cut and pasted in, judging by how this cartoon was made.)
A good cartoon.

agoodcartoon:

Conservatives like to deflect actual serious questions with vacuous bullshit talking points. A good cartoon.

The only way a conservative will be pictured with minorities is if the latter shut their mouth and stand in the background while the white man talks.

(Or if they’re cut and pasted in, judging by how this cartoon was made.)

A good cartoon.

Is there any conservative cartoon so dull that you actually can't find a way to mock it?

secotm:

agoodcartoon:

i might think of someone later but no one comes to mind immediately. maybe the closest is eric allie, but that’s more like, i just look at his willfully dense shit and i cannot come up with anything to say about it other than “you smug, lying little pigfucker i literally, literally want you to eat the roughage out of a hippo’s hot turd.”

to wit:


i think i find myself using gorrell and tinsley more because, as boring as they are, they’re inept enough to leave wiggle room. maybe it’s to allie’s credit as a cartoonist that his imagery is usually pretty unambiguous.

White people don’t get to advance to a post-racial society until they acknowledge all the historical racism they have benefited from and allowed to carry on through their own complacency and apathy.

A good cartoon.

Or, how about:

Even in a world perfectly in line with Dr. King’s vision, white people will still be called out as racist for being racist.

A good cartoon.

When Republicans look at Barack Obama, all they see is black.
A good cartoon.

When Republicans look at Barack Obama, all they see is black.

A good cartoon.

christopherkeelty:

secotm:

fauxcyclops:

secotm:

fauxcyclops:

secotm:

I hope I don’t end up inadvertently offending anyone here. I don’t talk about race that much because I’m white and I am aware of my privilege and that I know so little about being an ethnic minority and none of it is first-hand knowledge. But this is something that I was thinking about recently…

I think that it’s important for Superman to be white because I see him as this obnoxiously powerful Christ-figure who is prone to going on apocalyptic fascist benders at the slightest provocation.

That said I think that a no-bullshit Red Son-style exploration of a negro Superman who lands on Earth pre-civil rights would be really compelling.

That’s what I keep coming back to as I consider this, that his experiences as a black person in America (not even pre-Civil Right America, just America) would color (no pun intended) his views on heroism and duty to the people and it would take a lot to put him on the same track as the actual Superman is.

I think we can also consider how a black Superman would be received by the public, and how that would affect him.

I think that if anything it would strengthen his convictions rather than disenfranchise him. It ironically becomes more personal even though he’s already a literal alien. While he would certainly become exposed to an uglier side of humanity, he would also have the eyes to see an even brighter one. If Superman’s core value is faith in humanity to the bitter end, making him black would only accentuate this rather than weaken it.

I think with a Black!Superman the unwavering faith in humanity would have to be explicitly learned, rather than just taught to him by the Kents growing up and accepted as how things should be. I’d be interested in seeing a story that shows him learning that lesson and embracing it, dealing with the subtle and not-so-subtle racism and prejudice he might receive but still finding the strength to not give in and pay back hatred with hatred, or just indifference (‘Why should I waste my time saving some white people?’). I think it would ultimately make him a stronger character than White!Superman, but it would have to addressed and made the subject of the story itself, rather than the default of the actual Superman just being an all-around nice guy.

This is why I was wondering if, or just how closely, a Black!Superman could be done. I think at the very least there would need to be an in-universe acknowledgement of how he’s had a different upbringing and path to heroism than White!Superman, something which was necessary when making the Kingpin or Heimdell black. While it wouldn’t necessarily mean he’s not Superman, it would set him apart in a marked way.

What if [white] Superman had landed in the Reconstruction-era South, and been taken in by black sharecroppers instead of by Ma and Pa Kent? Then his experience as a child would have been witnessing and experiencing the way his parents were treated, perhaps having to defend them against lynchings or vandalism.

Assuming “Black Pa Kent” was of a similar mindset to what’s canon, and that Jor-El’s lessons for his son were the same, how would the treatment he witnessed and experienced put him into conflict with what he’s told is his purpose on Earth? 

THAT would be pretty interesting.

Well, myself, I don’t much care for the ‘Jor-El sent Superman to be a beacon’ idea put forth in Man of Steel (or, I guess, the earlier movies). I don’t know if the comics have that idea, but it just seems ridiculous to me because if Jor-El had enough time to do more than build the spacecraft and find a planet that could sustain his son (ie., if he had time to learn what humans are like and how the yellow sun radiation would affect Kal-El and how this is now a Jesus parable) then he should have had time to build a larger craft to hold him and Lar-El. In other words, I can get behind Jor-El finding a planet that can support his son and figure out how to send him there, but not much else.

Frankly I can do without the whole ‘Superman is Jesus, Jor-El is God’ nonsense. Superman as Moses I can get behind (and yeah, Jesus was in many ways a rip-off of Moses) but the religious subtext doesn’t need to be actual text.

Anyway, the question is whether ‘Black Pa Kent’ would raise Clark with the same lessons and morality as canon Pa Kent, but if we start redefining the ethics of the Kents and how they raise Clark we’re just opening a huge can of worms full of possibilities (tons of which are interesting, I’ll grant). My initial question is how closely Black!Superman can adhere to the established mythos.

fauxcyclops:

secotm:

fauxcyclops:

secotm:

I hope I don’t end up inadvertently offending anyone here. I don’t talk about race that much because I’m white and I am aware of my privilege and that I know so little about being an ethnic minority and none of it is first-hand knowledge. But this is something that I was thinking about recently…

I think that it’s important for Superman to be white because I see him as this obnoxiously powerful Christ-figure who is prone to going on apocalyptic fascist benders at the slightest provocation.

That said I think that a no-bullshit Red Son-style exploration of a negro Superman who lands on Earth pre-civil rights would be really compelling.

That’s what I keep coming back to as I consider this, that his experiences as a black person in America (not even pre-Civil Right America, just America) would color (no pun intended) his views on heroism and duty to the people and it would take a lot to put him on the same track as the actual Superman is.

I think we can also consider how a black Superman would be received by the public, and how that would affect him.

I think that if anything it would strengthen his convictions rather than disenfranchise him. It ironically becomes more personal even though he’s already a literal alien. While he would certainly become exposed to an uglier side of humanity, he would also have the eyes to see an even brighter one. If Superman’s core value is faith in humanity to the bitter end, making him black would only accentuate this rather than weaken it.

I think with a Black!Superman the unwavering faith in humanity would have to be explicitly learned, rather than just taught to him by the Kents growing up and accepted as how things should be. I’d be interested in seeing a story that shows him learning that lesson and embracing it, dealing with the subtle and not-so-subtle racism and prejudice he might receive but still finding the strength to not give in and pay back hatred with hatred, or just indifference (‘Why should I waste my time saving some white people?’). I think it would ultimately make him a stronger character than White!Superman, but it would have to addressed and made the subject of the story itself, rather than the default of the actual Superman just being an all-around nice guy.

This is why I was wondering if, or just how closely, a Black!Superman could be done. I think at the very least there would need to be an in-universe acknowledgement of how he’s had a different upbringing and path to heroism than White!Superman, something which was necessary when making the Kingpin or Heimdell black. While it wouldn’t necessarily mean he’s not Superman, it would set him apart in a marked way.

fauxcyclops:

secotm:

I hope I don’t end up inadvertently offending anyone here. I don’t talk about race that much because I’m white and I am aware of my privilege and that I know so little about being an ethnic minority and none of it is first-hand knowledge. But this is something that I was thinking about recently…

I think that it’s important for Superman to be white because I see him as this obnoxiously powerful Christ-figure who is prone to going on apocalyptic fascist benders at the slightest provocation.

That said I think that a no-bullshit Red Son-style exploration of a negro Superman who lands on Earth pre-civil rights would be really compelling.

That’s what I keep coming back to as I consider this, that his experiences as a black person in America (not even pre-Civil Right America, just America) would color (no pun intended) his views on heroism and duty to the people and it would take a lot to put him on the same track as the actual Superman is.

I think we can also consider how a black Superman would be received by the public, and how that would affect him.

A black Superman?

I hope I don’t end up inadvertently offending anyone here. I don’t talk about race that much because I’m white and I am aware of my privilege and that I know so little about being an ethnic minority and none of it is first-hand knowledge. But this is something that I was thinking about recently and I wonder if anyone has thoughts on this:

When they made the Daredevil movie a decade ago they cast the Kingpin, a white character, with a black actor. And it worked. There was nothing about the Kingpin’s character that was conditional on him being white. Michael Clark Duncan was a good actor with a physical presence that the Kingpin is supposed to have. Likewise, casting Idris Elba as… Heimdell? Heimdall? There was nothing wrong with that. Damn good actor. Did what was needed of him.

And recently there was the idea of casting… Donald Glover? Is that his name? as the Human Torch. And the racists are angry, but fuck them. The chief things about the Human Torch are that he’s rash, cocky, the one member who possibly loves what the gamma rays did to him. There’s nothing about his core character that says ‘Whites Only.’

So I was thinking recently, is there any character who couldn’t be cast as black or Asian or Hispanic?

And I think there is one: Superman.

Here’s my reasoning. It has nothing to do with a black person not being able to be heroic and virtuous and clean-cut to a fault. There are plenty of black heroes (even some who don’t have the word ‘black’ in their name). It’s that Superman’s purity, to me, stems at least partially from him having such a privileged upbringing and life.

Yes, he’s technically an orphan, but he didn’t learn that until he was a teenager (in most versions of his origin story, as I understand it). Before that he was raised in the most charming, quaint, well-adjusted life imaginable. The Kents aren’t wealthy, but he had such a loving environment and didn’t want for anything.

We can carry that to his powers. He’s so strong and so fast and his senses are so sharp and his mind operates so fast that his problem is more he knows everything bad that’s happening but he can’t be everywhere at once, rather than he continuously ends up in situations that overwhelm him. It’s the problem of choice rather than a problem of lacking.

That’s a sign of privilege. He’s had a privileged upbringing and power set and it’s easy for him to want to protect everyone and be absolutely virtuous when so much has just been given to him. I’m not complaining just about Superman being too powerful, because it’s certainly possible to come up with stories that test his limits and abilities. People have been doing it for 75 years or whatever. But every aspect of his life is blessed, to a fault.

When I think about Kal-el being black and landing in Kansas, I can imagine the Kents taking him in, raising him as their own and instilling the same values the actual Clark Kent has. But at the same time he would have experiences White!Clark Kent never had, and I think that by the time he became a man and would begin his superhero career, he would have been stopped by police officers a few dozen times, gone into a hundred stores and felt the eyes of the cashiers watching him… Maybe I’m overstating that, but Black!Clark Kent would not have been as shielded from man’s worst traits as much as White!Clark Kent was. And I think Black!Superman would kind of struggle with the responsibility he has to humanity and the experiences of subtle (or not-so-subtle) racism and prejudice he would experience as Clark Kent.

And like I said, it’s not that he wouldn’t still be a hero and save people, but I don’t think he would be the ultimate Boy Scout, the cheerful, incorruptible symbol of purity and hope Superman is held up as. I think Black!Superman would be a bit more cynical, a bit wearier of humanity’s failings. Maybe he would even be closer to ‘Kal-el is the person, Superman and Clark Kent are just masks he wears to interact with humanity.’ His ‘otherness’ would be heightened, whereas White!Clark Kent is the person and Superman is the mask (as I see it, fuck Tarantino and his bullshit theory). I think White!Superman can be the often cartoonishly optimistic figure he is partly because of, as I said, white privilege.

Am I wrong? Would a black Superman with the overwhelming optimism and faith in humanity not cause any kind of dissonance?

Sorry Chuck, the facts say ‘No.’ African-Americans are the most devout demographic; so by your logic black-on-black crime should be virtually non-existent.
It’s almost as if religious belief doesn’t affect most people’s behavior in a clear, positive way. Fancy that.

Sorry Chuck, the facts say ‘No.’ African-Americans are the most devout demographic; so by your logic black-on-black crime should be virtually non-existent.

It’s almost as if religious belief doesn’t affect most people’s behavior in a clear, positive way. Fancy that.

Yep, just like how Sarah Palin brought in all those female voters.
"Who cares what his policies are, or the way his party has treated us for decades? He’s the same ethnicity as us!"

Yep, just like how Sarah Palin brought in all those female voters.

"Who cares what his policies are, or the way his party has treated us for decades? He’s the same ethnicity as us!"

jethroq:

secotm:

Nice straw man, Wise. “Ban all guns and make things entirely safe.” Should I even bother responding to Wise’s response to something no one has ever said? Why not?
Wise is ignoring that we take steps to prevent pedophiles from getting to children (unless they’re in the Catholic church, then they’re beyond the reach of the law; but that’s a rant for another day), that we don’t have a society that fetishizes drunk driving (just the opposite; we have awareness campaigns designed to get people to stop and not drive drunk), and we have law enforcement agencies that crack (no pun intended) down on the manufacture, distribution, sale and usage of drugs like cocaine and meth (and since when did those last two represent some huge threat to children?).
In other words, we take steps to prevent any of those from harming kids/people in general. Wise must know this, unless he spends all his time hiding in his basement, waiting for the Mayan apocalypse/UN black helicopters/Obama’s FEMA operatives to end everything he knows and loves. He just has to pretend things aren’t that way in order to maintain his worldview and political stance.
What steps do we take to prevent the mentally ill from mowing down dozens of people with weapons designed for war? Oh, right. None. And Wise knows that as well.
Fuck you, Wise. If you ever want to grow up and have a mature, rational conversation about gun control feel free to join us at the adult’s table. Until then, keep your childish scribblings and “We can’t ban guns because bad things will continue to happen” bullshit to yourself.
(Also, on a tangent, how many minority women are advocating for gun rights? Not all political issues can be easily divided along racial or gender lines, but gun rights and lobbying for same are overwhelmingly a white man’s thing. Just another case of white guys putting their views in the mouths of minorities in order to make it seem the Republican party is not just a bunch of white men.)

On the last bit, I have seen some black people talk about gun control having racist origins, but that’s neither here or there.

After I wrote this post I went to brush my teeth and shower, and as I was standing there I was still thinking about the “Views on gun rights by race” question. My initial guess is that because black people (especially black men) are seen as criminals or potential criminals to a greater extent than white people (or Asians or Hispanics), mainstream society associates guns and black people in terms of criminals.
Taking that idea, it’s not much of a leap to imagine attempts at gun restrictions aimed at black people, though the specifics seem to elude me. Would the restrictions be on handguns and not rifles? Criminal background checks? Hard to see the NRA going along with either of those; they’re too obstinate to allow anything that even hints at restriction.

jethroq:

secotm:

Nice straw man, Wise. “Ban all guns and make things entirely safe.” Should I even bother responding to Wise’s response to something no one has ever said? Why not?

Wise is ignoring that we take steps to prevent pedophiles from getting to children (unless they’re in the Catholic church, then they’re beyond the reach of the law; but that’s a rant for another day), that we don’t have a society that fetishizes drunk driving (just the opposite; we have awareness campaigns designed to get people to stop and not drive drunk), and we have law enforcement agencies that crack (no pun intended) down on the manufacture, distribution, sale and usage of drugs like cocaine and meth (and since when did those last two represent some huge threat to children?).

In other words, we take steps to prevent any of those from harming kids/people in general. Wise must know this, unless he spends all his time hiding in his basement, waiting for the Mayan apocalypse/UN black helicopters/Obama’s FEMA operatives to end everything he knows and loves. He just has to pretend things aren’t that way in order to maintain his worldview and political stance.

What steps do we take to prevent the mentally ill from mowing down dozens of people with weapons designed for war? Oh, right. None. And Wise knows that as well.

Fuck you, Wise. If you ever want to grow up and have a mature, rational conversation about gun control feel free to join us at the adult’s table. Until then, keep your childish scribblings and “We can’t ban guns because bad things will continue to happen” bullshit to yourself.

(Also, on a tangent, how many minority women are advocating for gun rights? Not all political issues can be easily divided along racial or gender lines, but gun rights and lobbying for same are overwhelmingly a white man’s thing. Just another case of white guys putting their views in the mouths of minorities in order to make it seem the Republican party is not just a bunch of white men.)

On the last bit, I have seen some black people talk about gun control having racist origins, but that’s neither here or there.

After I wrote this post I went to brush my teeth and shower, and as I was standing there I was still thinking about the “Views on gun rights by race” question. My initial guess is that because black people (especially black men) are seen as criminals or potential criminals to a greater extent than white people (or Asians or Hispanics), mainstream society associates guns and black people in terms of criminals.

Taking that idea, it’s not much of a leap to imagine attempts at gun restrictions aimed at black people, though the specifics seem to elude me. Would the restrictions be on handguns and not rifles? Criminal background checks? Hard to see the NRA going along with either of those; they’re too obstinate to allow anything that even hints at restriction.